This is such a great analysis; I feel like it rings especially true with all the dark Americana metaphors (alien abductions, cowboys, Florida, Jesus) on Tortured Poets. I've actually compared Taylor to Billy Joel before because I think their music shares an optimism and a focus on the domestic/interpersonal that's less obvious in Springsteen's writing (at least the major records I've done deep listening to--Born in the USA, Born to Run) but Clare makes a really compelling case for their similarities.
I have made this comparison before and I am really gratified to read it from a Swift fan/enthusiast.
I am not a fan nor regular listener of either but I have seen Bruce twice and he puts on a hell of a show. He's not much of a musician but his band is one for all time and they really lift him up. Though I haven't seen Taylor live, I've watched some footage and heard enough raving to know that she is a great performer as well.
Bruce and Taylor are probably the best sentimentalist songwriters ever. Certainly the most prolific. For people who are classified as musicians, they're not very musical and their lyrics aren't particularly lyrical - but being a "songwriter" and being a "lyricist" are two different things and our beloved songwriters are rarely good lyricists. Their writing scans awkwardly. This is very obvious with Swift - her phrasing and prosody is often so awkward. She hasn't developed an easy singspiel cadence like Springsteen or Dylan or even Joni though she's about as wordy as they are. Neither of Swiftsteen is a good singer, though they are good vocalists. Linda Ronstadt is a good singer. She doesn't have to sing her own songs. Bruce and Taylor DO have to sing their own songs and they deliver them generally well.
I agree she has little in common with Carole King or Joni who are both Capital M Musicians. Carole was an extremely sophisticated professional composer and she used her Brill Building experience to write songs she could sing easily. Taylor gets compared to Joni a lot, which I find absurd. They're women whose writing is at times autobiographical. They have nothing else in common. Joni's writing is extremely specific and that's part of its appeal. Her words give me insight into this unique hyperactive brain and this unattainable world of hanging out with Mingus and Jaco and Sam Sheperd etc. She's the opposite of "Swiftsteen" in this regard. Swiftsteen very intentionally write themselves into a larger mythical Americana context. I have related to things Joni's described in her songs, but I've never related to her. And, I adore her work and listen to it regularly. Joni is also a musical titan and a spectacular singer. The comparison is unfair to both of them. Joni's closest comparison is probably Van Morrison (and Van is nothing like Bruce). Maybe Laura Nyro but Laura had so much ambition in arranging and instrumentation which Joni didn't. I have also thought perhaps Jackson Browne; while JB's musicianship far exceeds Bruce, he is not sniffing Joni. Van it is.
Sentimentalist writers like Swiftsteen attract almost religious devotion because their listeners find comfort and commiseration in their words. However, many people don't get it. Many don't find a place to settle in Swift's mythical PA or Bruce's mythical NJ, and the fervor seems like adulation. Since, as you said, they're both really basic, there isn't enough Music in their music to sustain interest in the absence of appreciation for the writing.
my hot take is that the heir to Joni - in thoughtfulness about the work, mix of autobiography and fictional narrative in their wordy songs, increasing interest in jazzy tones over their prolific career, and elaborate , sophisticated emotional worlds is...John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats.
I love this comment and am really thinking about it… but I should say, this is a guest post (the only guest post on here actually) and the rest of the time it's just me! So if you look at the back catalog and you hate it let me know and I can figure out how to refund you. Clare doesn't have her own substack at this time even though she should.
I agree on the Joni / Taylor comparisons by the way—they are very lazy and frankly a bit sexist imho, they reveal a deep lack of interest in what the two of them are doing artistically. (Though I do think Taylor cultivated the comparison at one time—like I'm pretty sure the album Red is named in honor of Blue.) I think the Carole King ones work a little better (there is a post about her in the archives) but in general I feel like people get very lazy about comparing women artists to each other.
appreciate your being forthright. I agree, Clare should have one. Great piece, Clare.
I read some more of your oeuvre and I very much appreciate your general restraint and lack of hyperbole. Cultural writing has become a bit exaggerated.. only one thing can be the MOST X or the LEAST Y of all time, but somehow superlatives are common! It makes no sense. The subscription stands.
As to comparisons.. I agree it's often lazy and superficial. Popular music writing is particularly bad... I don't recall reading Christgau ever describe music with any level of comprehension, he is merely encyclopedic as are his peers. There is also desperation for current artists to live up to past greats. Bruce himself was compared to Dylan in the early 70s while Dylan was in a lull (soon returned to the peak of his powers) even though their sole similarities are being men who write wordy songs. These days we LONG for our own Beatles or Joni or Dylan or Wonder while failing to acknowledge that popular culture does not accommodate idiosyncratic internally motivated artistry like theirs (at their best) anymore. Look at Aimee Mann and Fiona Apple - two great examples of your "Loser Theory" who only do what they want and find enough of an audience to sustain their careers. Their audience is not nearly as large as their quality deserves, but it probably engages with the art more deeply (this is conjecture).
I look forward to leaving more longwinded, unedited, and marginally coherent comments.
evidence in the "Bruce used to be/is basic" column: Lou Reed went out of his way to insult Bruce in a 1975 interview with Punk Magazine (Bruce just went on magnanimously loving Lou Reed anyway, and did that beautiful guest spot on "Street Hassle")
Curious about the role attributed to the Band's cover of "Atlantic City." This is in fact the third-most-played Band song on Spotify and by far the most played song by the Robertson-less post-reunion edition. I can find no evidence it was any kind of chart hit. I guess I kind of assumed it was high-ranking due to being checked out by Springsteen fans! But maybe there was some movement in the opposite direction? (Also the Band themselves were once uncool in spite of the Dylan association. Like CCR, they played at Woodstock without being acknowledged by the film version.)
i'm actually considering writing a follow up post of my own about Being Basic but i think basic is said in two senses: there's "basic" as in, a kind of foundation of taste ("white tee shirt"), and there's basic as in, a taste of no taste ("pumpkin spice latte"). unfortunately while i truly hate to say this i do think there's a bit of misogyny involved in which gets to be which lol
that seems true, yeah. I was a little startled the first time I heard a woman seem to critique herself for liking a panini from panera, or a pumpkin spice latte, or other things that are literally engineered to be tasty and hard to dislike. (but I would also say that guys seem to feel a genuine unnecessary embarrassment and defensiveness about liking e.g. Springsteen, Paul Simon, etc., esp if young -- it's not simply neutral)
oh yeah for sure. i think what i'm thinking about is slightly different from embarrassment but agree that men don't exist in a space of taste neutrality. young guys who are into music seem really vicious to each other, almost more into that than the music itself (yet another reason I don't like most music criticism lol)
i want to make it clear i personally know nothing about bruce springsteen so if you want to take it up with somebody you're gonna have to fight clare (or her dad i guess).
This is such a great analysis; I feel like it rings especially true with all the dark Americana metaphors (alien abductions, cowboys, Florida, Jesus) on Tortured Poets. I've actually compared Taylor to Billy Joel before because I think their music shares an optimism and a focus on the domestic/interpersonal that's less obvious in Springsteen's writing (at least the major records I've done deep listening to--Born in the USA, Born to Run) but Clare makes a really compelling case for their similarities.
this is very good, and not just because I agree with Clare that Taylor should date a nice Pennsylvania boy
I have made this comparison before and I am really gratified to read it from a Swift fan/enthusiast.
I am not a fan nor regular listener of either but I have seen Bruce twice and he puts on a hell of a show. He's not much of a musician but his band is one for all time and they really lift him up. Though I haven't seen Taylor live, I've watched some footage and heard enough raving to know that she is a great performer as well.
Bruce and Taylor are probably the best sentimentalist songwriters ever. Certainly the most prolific. For people who are classified as musicians, they're not very musical and their lyrics aren't particularly lyrical - but being a "songwriter" and being a "lyricist" are two different things and our beloved songwriters are rarely good lyricists. Their writing scans awkwardly. This is very obvious with Swift - her phrasing and prosody is often so awkward. She hasn't developed an easy singspiel cadence like Springsteen or Dylan or even Joni though she's about as wordy as they are. Neither of Swiftsteen is a good singer, though they are good vocalists. Linda Ronstadt is a good singer. She doesn't have to sing her own songs. Bruce and Taylor DO have to sing their own songs and they deliver them generally well.
I agree she has little in common with Carole King or Joni who are both Capital M Musicians. Carole was an extremely sophisticated professional composer and she used her Brill Building experience to write songs she could sing easily. Taylor gets compared to Joni a lot, which I find absurd. They're women whose writing is at times autobiographical. They have nothing else in common. Joni's writing is extremely specific and that's part of its appeal. Her words give me insight into this unique hyperactive brain and this unattainable world of hanging out with Mingus and Jaco and Sam Sheperd etc. She's the opposite of "Swiftsteen" in this regard. Swiftsteen very intentionally write themselves into a larger mythical Americana context. I have related to things Joni's described in her songs, but I've never related to her. And, I adore her work and listen to it regularly. Joni is also a musical titan and a spectacular singer. The comparison is unfair to both of them. Joni's closest comparison is probably Van Morrison (and Van is nothing like Bruce). Maybe Laura Nyro but Laura had so much ambition in arranging and instrumentation which Joni didn't. I have also thought perhaps Jackson Browne; while JB's musicianship far exceeds Bruce, he is not sniffing Joni. Van it is.
Sentimentalist writers like Swiftsteen attract almost religious devotion because their listeners find comfort and commiseration in their words. However, many people don't get it. Many don't find a place to settle in Swift's mythical PA or Bruce's mythical NJ, and the fervor seems like adulation. Since, as you said, they're both really basic, there isn't enough Music in their music to sustain interest in the absence of appreciation for the writing.
But, I get why people get it.
sub'd and eager to check out your past work.
my hot take is that the heir to Joni - in thoughtfulness about the work, mix of autobiography and fictional narrative in their wordy songs, increasing interest in jazzy tones over their prolific career, and elaborate , sophisticated emotional worlds is...John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats.
I love this comment and am really thinking about it… but I should say, this is a guest post (the only guest post on here actually) and the rest of the time it's just me! So if you look at the back catalog and you hate it let me know and I can figure out how to refund you. Clare doesn't have her own substack at this time even though she should.
I agree on the Joni / Taylor comparisons by the way—they are very lazy and frankly a bit sexist imho, they reveal a deep lack of interest in what the two of them are doing artistically. (Though I do think Taylor cultivated the comparison at one time—like I'm pretty sure the album Red is named in honor of Blue.) I think the Carole King ones work a little better (there is a post about her in the archives) but in general I feel like people get very lazy about comparing women artists to each other.
appreciate your being forthright. I agree, Clare should have one. Great piece, Clare.
I read some more of your oeuvre and I very much appreciate your general restraint and lack of hyperbole. Cultural writing has become a bit exaggerated.. only one thing can be the MOST X or the LEAST Y of all time, but somehow superlatives are common! It makes no sense. The subscription stands.
As to comparisons.. I agree it's often lazy and superficial. Popular music writing is particularly bad... I don't recall reading Christgau ever describe music with any level of comprehension, he is merely encyclopedic as are his peers. There is also desperation for current artists to live up to past greats. Bruce himself was compared to Dylan in the early 70s while Dylan was in a lull (soon returned to the peak of his powers) even though their sole similarities are being men who write wordy songs. These days we LONG for our own Beatles or Joni or Dylan or Wonder while failing to acknowledge that popular culture does not accommodate idiosyncratic internally motivated artistry like theirs (at their best) anymore. Look at Aimee Mann and Fiona Apple - two great examples of your "Loser Theory" who only do what they want and find enough of an audience to sustain their careers. Their audience is not nearly as large as their quality deserves, but it probably engages with the art more deeply (this is conjecture).
I look forward to leaving more longwinded, unedited, and marginally coherent comments.
evidence in the "Bruce used to be/is basic" column: Lou Reed went out of his way to insult Bruce in a 1975 interview with Punk Magazine (Bruce just went on magnanimously loving Lou Reed anyway, and did that beautiful guest spot on "Street Hassle")
Curious about the role attributed to the Band's cover of "Atlantic City." This is in fact the third-most-played Band song on Spotify and by far the most played song by the Robertson-less post-reunion edition. I can find no evidence it was any kind of chart hit. I guess I kind of assumed it was high-ranking due to being checked out by Springsteen fans! But maybe there was some movement in the opposite direction? (Also the Band themselves were once uncool in spite of the Dylan association. Like CCR, they played at Woodstock without being acknowledged by the film version.)
these days Lou Reed is kinda basic. but in 1975 he was the pied piper of heroin and gender fluidity
Bruce was also flirting with Patti Smith back then ... much to consider ... the Basic/Twisted dialectic is subtle beyond reckoning ...
i'm actually considering writing a follow up post of my own about Being Basic but i think basic is said in two senses: there's "basic" as in, a kind of foundation of taste ("white tee shirt"), and there's basic as in, a taste of no taste ("pumpkin spice latte"). unfortunately while i truly hate to say this i do think there's a bit of misogyny involved in which gets to be which lol
that seems true, yeah. I was a little startled the first time I heard a woman seem to critique herself for liking a panini from panera, or a pumpkin spice latte, or other things that are literally engineered to be tasty and hard to dislike. (but I would also say that guys seem to feel a genuine unnecessary embarrassment and defensiveness about liking e.g. Springsteen, Paul Simon, etc., esp if young -- it's not simply neutral)
oh yeah for sure. i think what i'm thinking about is slightly different from embarrassment but agree that men don't exist in a space of taste neutrality. young guys who are into music seem really vicious to each other, almost more into that than the music itself (yet another reason I don't like most music criticism lol)
imagine if taylor swift started calling herself The Boss, imo that would rule
unfortunately people would be like yes… a girlboss queen!!
i want to make it clear i personally know nothing about bruce springsteen so if you want to take it up with somebody you're gonna have to fight clare (or her dad i guess).
give his flannery o'connor song a listen i know that one's good
you have to fight my whole family
does that include cousins
maybe just the girls