Wonderful. Reminds me of this from Delaney’s Racism and Science Fiction:
I submitted Nova for serialization to the famous sf editor of Analog Magazine, John W. Campbell, Jr. Campbell rejected it, with a note and phone call to my agent explaining that he didn’t feel his readership would be able to relate to a black main character. That was one of my first direct encounters, as a professional writer, with the slippery and always commercialized form of liberal American prejudice: Campbell had nothing against my being black, you understand. (There reputedly exists a letter from him to horror writer Dean Koontz, from only a year or two later, in which Campbell argues in all seriousness that a technologically advanced black civilization is a social and a biological impossibility. . . .). No, perish the thought! Surely there was not a prejudiced bone in his body! It’s just that I had, by pure happenstance, chosen to write about someone whose mother was from Senegal (and whose father was from Norway), and it was the poor benighted readers, out there in America’s heartland, who, in 1967, would be too upset. . . .
It was all handled as though I’d just happened to have dressed my main character in a purple brocade dinner jacket. (In the phone call Campbell made it fairly clear that this was his only reason for rejecting the book. Otherwise, he rather liked it. . . .) Purple brocade just wasn’t big with the buyers that season. Sorry. . . .
Today if something like that happened, I would probably give the information to those people who feel it their job to make such things as widely known as possible. At the time, however, I swallowed it—a mark of both how the times, and I, have changed. I told myself I was too busy writing. The most profitable trajectory for a successful science fiction novel in those days was for an sf book to start life as a magazine serial, move on to hardcover publication, and finally be reprinted as a mass market paperback. If you were writing a novel a year (or, say, three novels every two years, which was then almost what I was averaging), that was the only way to push your annual income up, at the time, from four to five figures—and the low five figures at that. That was the point I began to realize I probably was not going to be able to make the kind of living (modest enough!) that, only a few months before, at the Awards Banquet, I’d let myself envision. The things I saw myself writing in the future, I already knew, were going to be more rather than less controversial. The percentage of purple brocade was only going to go up.
I've come around to your way of thinking on this, although more regarding what I'm reading. I still think there is something to the plight, although I also think it's just one part of a larger problem. The respectability of the classic male novelist isn't coming back because literature is more of a niche thing at this point. Even if the male novelist reclaims his 'rightful throne' at the top of the literary world, he'll have become a king without a castle imo. With that in mind they should take your advice and just write what they want (although they may have to get a real job to actually pay the bills; sorry but them's the breaks).
I think the problem is that it’s so cringe to complain about this and the ‘male lit fiction’ genre has been ruined by mediocre over-saturation. Like, you can only read so much Franzen and Tulathimutte before you’re like “I get it, you’re sad and nobody will fuck you but maybe that doesn’t deserve a novel”
lol, I think that's a little unfair to Franzen, but I think I agree with your general point… though honestly that's true of all hyped fiction. Lots of mediocre books by women hyped up too.
ugggh, attempted to run down the full letter by Michael Coney only to find myself on a page that should have been _The Alien Critic #8_ but which was instead letting me know that "Other Internet Archive services are temporarily offline."
tried for some time to come up with an interesting reaction to the rest of the post, but it was always inevitably cringe - turns out the struggle *is* real
Jessa Crispin made a similar point (can’t find it now, sorry) that if these men really want to overcome this obstacle, they should start their own small presses. Which may not come naturally for male types who need the authority that respect confirms.
I’ll be honest tho, I’ve bowed out from literary fiction and focused more on crime/horror/genre, partly for these reasons, mostly bc literary fiction is a small space that’s only getting smaller. Certain published authors have told me as much. Perhaps I too should have gone to Yale
With regard to literary fiction, I have noticed a lot of people who write very good novels—writers of various races, genders, etc.—having a hard time publishing recently. I know the novels are good because I’ve read them and loved them very much. The problem does seem to be that nobody knows how to market them to an audience big enough to make money.
i really do think we live in awful times for fiction writers—i believe deeply that the readers are there, but all the mediating institutions meant to get the books to them are failing
It’s strange. I know of a writer whose book sold 352 (literally) copies in America but sold 15k in Italy. I don’t think it’s a translation issue, because the writing in the book is very good. Nor is it specifically a book that should hit hard in Italy, as it’s set in the American South and very Southern. I think what you’re saying about American publishing is true, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Would be really cool if men read more novels though. If all of a sudden every dude in America was tearing through a novel a week, just gobbling down any great or even half-decent work of fiction they could find. Earn your market share, fellas! Get on it!
Yes! I don’t want respect I just want enough money/time to keep fucking going so that if the writing is good enough it will make its own case. Everything else is a luxury
elizabeth bishop really had the ideal situation for a while (trust fund big enough to let you be a picky poet but not so big you got lazy / able to live outside the country while having various proxies who would stump for her for grants and such). ofc there was also the alcoholism but i don't think it's a package deal.
Wonderful. Reminds me of this from Delaney’s Racism and Science Fiction:
I submitted Nova for serialization to the famous sf editor of Analog Magazine, John W. Campbell, Jr. Campbell rejected it, with a note and phone call to my agent explaining that he didn’t feel his readership would be able to relate to a black main character. That was one of my first direct encounters, as a professional writer, with the slippery and always commercialized form of liberal American prejudice: Campbell had nothing against my being black, you understand. (There reputedly exists a letter from him to horror writer Dean Koontz, from only a year or two later, in which Campbell argues in all seriousness that a technologically advanced black civilization is a social and a biological impossibility. . . .). No, perish the thought! Surely there was not a prejudiced bone in his body! It’s just that I had, by pure happenstance, chosen to write about someone whose mother was from Senegal (and whose father was from Norway), and it was the poor benighted readers, out there in America’s heartland, who, in 1967, would be too upset. . . .
It was all handled as though I’d just happened to have dressed my main character in a purple brocade dinner jacket. (In the phone call Campbell made it fairly clear that this was his only reason for rejecting the book. Otherwise, he rather liked it. . . .) Purple brocade just wasn’t big with the buyers that season. Sorry. . . .
Today if something like that happened, I would probably give the information to those people who feel it their job to make such things as widely known as possible. At the time, however, I swallowed it—a mark of both how the times, and I, have changed. I told myself I was too busy writing. The most profitable trajectory for a successful science fiction novel in those days was for an sf book to start life as a magazine serial, move on to hardcover publication, and finally be reprinted as a mass market paperback. If you were writing a novel a year (or, say, three novels every two years, which was then almost what I was averaging), that was the only way to push your annual income up, at the time, from four to five figures—and the low five figures at that. That was the point I began to realize I probably was not going to be able to make the kind of living (modest enough!) that, only a few months before, at the Awards Banquet, I’d let myself envision. The things I saw myself writing in the future, I already knew, were going to be more rather than less controversial. The percentage of purple brocade was only going to go up.
“The percentage of purple brocade was only going to go up.” great line!!
I've come around to your way of thinking on this, although more regarding what I'm reading. I still think there is something to the plight, although I also think it's just one part of a larger problem. The respectability of the classic male novelist isn't coming back because literature is more of a niche thing at this point. Even if the male novelist reclaims his 'rightful throne' at the top of the literary world, he'll have become a king without a castle imo. With that in mind they should take your advice and just write what they want (although they may have to get a real job to actually pay the bills; sorry but them's the breaks).
though i cannot scold the male novelists into getting a real job until i get one myself, i feel…
I don't see you writing lengthy laments that Swifties aren't getting lucrative bookdeals so I think you're safe. It's about consistency.
HA! Brilliant post! That’s all I have to add to the conversation.
thank you!
I think the problem is that it’s so cringe to complain about this and the ‘male lit fiction’ genre has been ruined by mediocre over-saturation. Like, you can only read so much Franzen and Tulathimutte before you’re like “I get it, you’re sad and nobody will fuck you but maybe that doesn’t deserve a novel”
lol, I think that's a little unfair to Franzen, but I think I agree with your general point… though honestly that's true of all hyped fiction. Lots of mediocre books by women hyped up too.
ugggh, attempted to run down the full letter by Michael Coney only to find myself on a page that should have been _The Alien Critic #8_ but which was instead letting me know that "Other Internet Archive services are temporarily offline."
tried for some time to come up with an interesting reaction to the rest of the post, but it was always inevitably cringe - turns out the struggle *is* real
the internet archive going down is truly a problem for like… My Entire Life rn
Jessa Crispin made a similar point (can’t find it now, sorry) that if these men really want to overcome this obstacle, they should start their own small presses. Which may not come naturally for male types who need the authority that respect confirms.
I’ll be honest tho, I’ve bowed out from literary fiction and focused more on crime/horror/genre, partly for these reasons, mostly bc literary fiction is a small space that’s only getting smaller. Certain published authors have told me as much. Perhaps I too should have gone to Yale
ah now that you say that I probably saw that on my substack feed! but then she's always right on the money on these things.
i think that's probably true re literary fiction, yeah. it is a bummer ):
With regard to literary fiction, I have noticed a lot of people who write very good novels—writers of various races, genders, etc.—having a hard time publishing recently. I know the novels are good because I’ve read them and loved them very much. The problem does seem to be that nobody knows how to market them to an audience big enough to make money.
i really do think we live in awful times for fiction writers—i believe deeply that the readers are there, but all the mediating institutions meant to get the books to them are failing
It’s strange. I know of a writer whose book sold 352 (literally) copies in America but sold 15k in Italy. I don’t think it’s a translation issue, because the writing in the book is very good. Nor is it specifically a book that should hit hard in Italy, as it’s set in the American South and very Southern. I think what you’re saying about American publishing is true, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Would be really cool if men read more novels though. If all of a sudden every dude in America was tearing through a novel a week, just gobbling down any great or even half-decent work of fiction they could find. Earn your market share, fellas! Get on it!
the television took much from us…
Ideal balance is 80% writing, 20% complaining
this is true
Yes! I don’t want respect I just want enough money/time to keep fucking going so that if the writing is good enough it will make its own case. Everything else is a luxury
elizabeth bishop really had the ideal situation for a while (trust fund big enough to let you be a picky poet but not so big you got lazy / able to live outside the country while having various proxies who would stump for her for grants and such). ofc there was also the alcoholism but i don't think it's a package deal.
Omg you’ve just set yourself up to write a follow up post to this called “silly novels by male novelists” h/t George Eliot
is this why the angel told me to read all this d.h. lawrence…